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roulette clocking
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Keeno
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2005 7:05 pm    Post subject: roulette clocking Reply with quote

sorry for the OT post, but this seems to be the only active
rec.gambling.* group

I have a theory that I would like to get some opinions on.
Modern roulette wheels spin at a constant rate at all times, so the
only non-constant variables per wheel per spin would be the velocity at
which the dealer releases the ball, and the relative location to the
wheel that it is released. You could also probably assume that most
dealers get into a groove, releasing the ball at approximately the same
velocity each spin, creating a second constant variable. Therefore, I
postulate that if the position at which the ball is released relative
to the wheel can be observed, it becomes possible to predict at least
the right quadrant, if not the right octant, that the ball will land,
all without the aid of a computer or any other such device that would
be deemed illegal in most jurisdictions.
Thoughts?
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Mr. V
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2005 7:50 pm    Post subject: Re: roulette clocking Reply with quote

A good board for the serious discussion of roulette:

http://gambling.projectsydney.com/

roll dem bones
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ACDOC
Guest





PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2005 11:00 pm    Post subject: Re: roulette clocking Reply with quote

Wheel Clocking has been around for a long time. Good luck in your
endeavors.
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alan
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2005 11:00 pm    Post subject: Re: roulette clocking Reply with quote

There have been demonstrations by dealers who are able to target
one-quarter of the wheel spin after spin after spin.

there are betting schemes based on this.

there are other betting schemes that say dealers will willingly target
the zero or double-zero so if one comes up start betting on both.

I know a roulette player who CLAIMS that with proper tipping the dealer
will target his grouping of nine numbers.

I would not believe any of it except that once I was in a high limit
room where there was a wheel with one zero (european wheel I think this
is called) and the dealer demonstrated with ten spins in a row that he
could target the same section of nine numbers (four to the left and
four to the right of the zero).

There was no money being bet. My son and I were in the high limit room
early on a saturday morning waiting for a craps tourney to start. The
dealer put on "the show" because I asked him if it were possible? He
said, "let me show you."

The only time I ever played roulette was betting on black or red, and
just for a few spins. Ive never tried the "wheel influencing" game.

Gee, I have enough trouble convincing people that dice influencing
exists.
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Cymbal Man Freq.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2005 11:00 pm    Post subject: Re: roulette clocking Reply with quote

The croupier has the best chance of making you lose your single straight up
bets.
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Bob R
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 4:00 am    Post subject: Re: roulette clocking Reply with quote

Doesn't the dealer spin the wheel? Or is that done by a machine now at the
fancy casinos?
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alan
Guest





PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 6:05 am    Post subject: Re: roulette clocking Reply with quote

Dealer spins, but the dealers can anticipate the speed of the wheel
with their drop. If you notice at some casinos, the wheel is actually
spinned rather slowly.
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Bob R
Guest





PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 8:45 am    Post subject: Re: roulette clocking Reply with quote

"alan" <[email protected]> wrote:

Quote:
Dealer spins, but the dealers can anticipate the speed of the wheel
with their drop. If you notice at some casinos, the wheel is actually
spinned rather slowly.

Thanks, I have noticed that. So what do you make of this assumption:

Modern roulette wheels spin at a constant rate at all times

?
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Mason
Guest





PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 9:00 am    Post subject: Re: roulette clocking Reply with quote

The Eudemonic Pie, by Thomas A. Bass Boston: Houghton Mifflin, 1985

Recounts the adventures of a group of computer scientists and physicists that
attempted to use your "theory" to beat the roulette wheel using homemade
computer technology and team play. It claims to be non-fiction. I have also
read claims that the project has continued over the years with increased funding
and success.

Try to find a copy. You will find it very interesting, I am sure.

--
Onward thru the fog,
Mason


"Keeno" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
Quote:
sorry for the OT post, but this seems to be the only active
rec.gambling.* group

I have a theory that I would like to get some opinions on.
Modern roulette wheels spin at a constant rate at all times, so the
only non-constant variables per wheel per spin would be the velocity at
which the dealer releases the ball, and the relative location to the
wheel that it is released. You could also probably assume that most
dealers get into a groove, releasing the ball at approximately the same
velocity each spin, creating a second constant variable. Therefore, I
postulate that if the position at which the ball is released relative
to the wheel can be observed, it becomes possible to predict at least
the right quadrant, if not the right octant, that the ball will land,
all without the aid of a computer or any other such device that would
be deemed illegal in most jurisdictions.
Thoughts?
Back to top
alan
Guest





PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 10:10 am    Post subject: Re: roulette clocking Reply with quote

Bob this does not make sense to me: modern wheels do not spin at a
constant rate at all times.

they slow down, don't they? they don't always start at the same rate,
true?

Look, I have enough problems with craps... LOL
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Guest






PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 2:20 pm    Post subject: Re: roulette clocking Reply with quote

Here's a recent article fron the London TIMES newspaper about ball
tracking. Great way to win 1 million.

LINK: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,4484-1390808,00.html

December 06, 2004

Ritz phone gang can keep 1.3m roulette winnings
By Ben Hoyle


CASINOS across Britain were reviewing their security last night after
three gamblers who used a mobile phone to win more than a 1 million
at the Ritz were allowed to keep their takings.

A device in the phone allegedly enabled them to predict the outcome of
every spin of a roulette wheel. But Scotland Yard has decided that
there is no ground to prosecute the gamblers and refunded them the
"significant" quantity of cash which officers seized after their
arrest. The group, described as a "chic and beautiful" Hungarian
woman, 32, and two "elegant" Serbian men, aged 33 and 38, had been
on police bail for nine months but are free to leave the country.

A Scotland Yard spokesman said last night: "They have been informed
that no further action will be taken and that the inquiry has ended."


The three were arrested in March this year after the Ritz casino
management reviewed CCTV footage and called in police. They had won
1.3 million over two nights at the popular haunt for Arab princes and
international playboys.

On their first night they took home 100,000. The following evening
they returned and won 1.2 million. They were handed 300,000 in cash
and a cheque for 900,000. They were alleged to have had a laser
scanner inside a mobile phone linked to a microcomputer. The scanner
measured the speed of the roulette ball as the croupier released it,
identified where it fell and measured the declining orbit of the wheel.


The data was beamed to the microcomputer, which ran through thousands
of possible outcomes to forecast which section numbers the ball would
land on. This data was flashed on to the screen of the phone just
before the wheel made its third spin, by which time all bets must be
placed.

Having reduced their odds of winning from 37-1 to 6-1, the trio placed
bets on all six numbers in the section where the ball would end up.

Legal sources said that the gamblers had not broken any law because
their scanner did not interfere with the ball or the roulette wheel.
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Mr. V
Guest





PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 2:25 pm    Post subject: Re: roulette clocking Reply with quote

A team of three hit the Ritz Casino in London for over a million pounds
a year ago using electronic aids (laser, cell phone, computer) to track
and measure ball and wheel speed and position, then predict optimum
betting options.

Some long time roulette punters claim to be able to do this without
electronic aids (Visual Ballistics), at least when the dealer regularly
spins the wheel and the ball with consistent force.

roll dem bones
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alan
Guest





PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 2:30 pm    Post subject: Re: roulette clocking Reply with quote

fascinating. is this why cell phone use at the tables is not allowed??
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buckeye-kev
Guest





PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 7:37 pm    Post subject: Re: roulette clocking Reply with quote

This fits into my recent posts on "passive cheating" as they didn't
interfere with the wheel or ball or mechanically alter it they just
used a device to measure and "outwit" the game. Just like Uston using
his device that he entered the card values in on a pocket device
relayed to a computer and it signalled back to his shoe what to do in
BJ. It is also on par with that guy in prison who used to work for the
LV Gambling Commission until he used his knowledge of random number
generators to predict keno numbers based on previous numbers and got
caught in AC.

I'd say this is still cheating because it is doing something INHUMAN
like detecting spin rates or "super-accurately" counting cards or
exploiting RNG algorithms that a human ALONE could not do. Whereas
regular card counting is just using skill, these folks are using
mechanisms and computers to overcome the odds which is "passive
cheating" and I can see it being banned. I don't know if they should
be able to put folks in jail for it though. Banning and barring is one
thing but jail is another.
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Keeno
Guest





PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 7:37 pm    Post subject: Re: roulette clocking Reply with quote

alan wrote:
Quote:
Bob this does not make sense to me: modern wheels do not spin at a
constant rate at all times.

they slow down, don't they? they don't always start at the same
rate,
true?

Look, I have enough problems with craps... LOL

Well, I was at silver legacy in reno last weekend and I'm pretty sure
that the wheel there was motorized to spin at a constant rate. Could be
mistaken, but I don't think so.
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