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World Records in Craps
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alan
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2005 2:41 am    Post subject: Re: World Records in Craps Reply with quote

Mr V thanks for at least being open to the possibility. I have had
some marginal success with my tosses so that the dice land "flat" or
"even" and NOT on a corner, and when the dice do land flat my results
tend to be meaningful "numbers."

I think that the "true" controllers have more success at getting their
dice to land flat and avoiding hits on corners. It can be done.

I also think that with their "light touch" that when the dice do come
to the wall, the repel action is light so that the dice (when they do
go off axis) go off by one face, avoiding the seven.

As Ive said before I think too much is said about dice controlling
meaning dice must remain on axis 100%. Even Sharpshooter's book shows
charts with what happens when dice can go off axis by one face. It is
the "double face change) which creates the seven for most throwing
sets.


Mr. V wrote:
Quote:
alan asks:

WHY do you believe dice
control or dice influencing is impossible? And if its because of the
alligator bumps, explain why?

Fair question.

The entire precision shooting concept is based on keeping the dice on
axis, such that they are on the same axis after they stop rolling as
they were when the shooter picked them up and launched them.

I can accept the possibility that some folks can, through extensive
practice, muscle control, whatever, keep the dice on axis as they fly
through the air, but it is the "rough landing" that causes me to part
company with the faithful.

To my mind, there really is no way to keep the dice regularly on
axis,
over and over, once they hit the felt, or the wall; there are too
many
factors which will influence the manner and direction in which they
travel.

If they land in less than perfect synchronicity, randomness will
follow: both have to stay on axis, and it won't happen if their angle
at landing differs, or if one has a bit more momentum, etc.

As for the alligator walls, it's more than the randomizing effect
they
are designed to impart; it seems to me that as soon as they land,
with
any amount of substantial vigor or energy, the angles or skew or
whatever will be different, causing randomness.

Sure, once in awhile they might stay on axis, but over and over and
over?

Nope.

roll dem bones
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2005 2:41 am    Post subject: Re: World Records in Craps Reply with quote

"Skill in golf is not simply alleged in books by those who profit from
the marketing of the concept, it is unquestionably demonstrated
and quantified."

This is what Mason wrote. He is saying the skill in golf is
demonstrated. I agree. However, the point implied was that in his
diatribes about shooting he comments that there is no evidence
demonstrated.

I used Tiger's shots as an example that even at the highest levels,
golf is a human skill that does not produce the same results over and
over again - which is the point of Mason and others about advantage
rolling. Why is it different for advantage rolling of the dice?

Tiger putted his ball in the water the 1st day.
That is not common for a "pro". Yet he did it.

It don't always go as planned.

However, Mason and others have repeatedly written that all the teachers
should give up their day jobs and make millions in the casino. If a
setter does not have a great day many use it as an example that the
skill doesn't exist. So in their position, Tiger proved he had no
skill when he putted the ball in the water.

Do you see how foolish this is?

When convenient the position changes.

Funny how that happens.

Golf is a human skill. Rolling the dice for some is a human skill.

Mason has shown that he measures one differently than the other.



Golfer
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Mason
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2005 3:00 am    Post subject: Re: World Records in Craps Reply with quote

"alan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
Quote:
Im not sure if we tried this one before, but: WHY do you believe dice
control or dice influencing is impossible?

I don't.
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acpa
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2005 4:00 am    Post subject: Re: World Records in Craps Reply with quote

"Mason" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
Quote:
"alan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
Im not sure if we tried this one before, but: WHY do you believe dice
control or dice influencing is impossible?

I don't.


Interesting reply, Mason.


I was trying to point the questioner to material by someone who thinks he
can control/influence the dice. I don't agree with your attack on my choice
of words, but know that that comes with posting on the NG.

A further question for you however, since you believe influencing the dice
is not impossible, am I jumping to much to read that the same as saying "you
believe influencing the dice is possible?

If the answer is yes, do you think anyone is doing it (influencing the dice
in casinos)?

Hope you reply to these questions!

Noah
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acpa
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2005 4:00 am    Post subject: Re: World Records in Craps Reply with quote

"Mason" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
Quote:
"acpa" <[email protected]> wrote
It is a physical skill, can you learn to do it?

What absurdity!
Make a list of all the physical skills that can't be learned.

By me? or by anyone.

By me, would include walking a highwire without a net for instance. Another
for me would be anyskill, if any, that requires 20/20 eyesight if both eyes,
since my one eye corrected is only 20/100.

Noah
Quote:

I don't know, I have read books on golf, but I can't play like Tiger.

The analogy is asinine. Skill in golf is not simply alleged in books by
those who profit from the marketing of the concept, it is unquestionably
demonstrated and quantified.

I conclude you are implying that dice influencing has not been
unquestionably demonstrated and quantified, am I reading you right?

Relative skill levels are assigned weighting factors based on
Quote:
performance against objective standards.

--
Onward thru the fog,
Mason


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Mason
Guest





PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2005 6:00 am    Post subject: Re: World Records in Craps Reply with quote

"acpa" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
Quote:

"Mason" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
"alan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
Im not sure if we tried this one before, but: WHY do you believe dice
control or dice influencing is impossible?

I don't.


Interesting reply, Mason.

I was trying to point the questioner to material by someone who thinks he can
control/influence the dice. I don't agree with your attack on my choice of
words, but know that that comes with posting on the NG.

A further question for you however, since you believe influencing the dice is
not impossible, am I jumping to much to read that the same as saying "you
believe influencing the dice is possible?

Can you be more sophomoric?
I said I don't "believe it to be impossible".

I have NEVER held dice "whatever" was impossible. No one on this NG can site
any statement of mine where I have characterized dice "whatever" as impossible.

MoneyLA is just trying to put words in my mouth because he has nothing of value
to say.

Of course, dice "whatever" is possible.

(If it were impossible, there would be no suckers for the grifters to fleece and
about which non-critical thinkers like you can fantasize.)

Quote:
If the answer is yes, do you think anyone is doing it (influencing the dice in
casinos)?

I await replicable objective evidence of this phenomenon with an open mind. The
current dice bowlers university hustle has been going on since 2000 or so
beginning with PARR. I am still waiting. Without such replicable evidence, the
instuction in dice "whatever" is just another grift in a long series of grifts
that capitalize on the greed of non-critical thinkers in my opinion.

The only useful response to this opinion is for you to produce some citation of
replicable objective evidence of dice "whatever". Otherwise, drop it and
continue posting asinine analogies of dice "whatever" to quantifiable physical
skills like sports.

Quote:
What absurdity!
Make a list of all the physical skills that can't be learned.

By me? or by anyone.

Are you trying for the sophomoric hall of fame?
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Mason
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2005 6:00 am    Post subject: Re: World Records in Craps Reply with quote

<[email protected]> wrote
Quote:
Mason has shown that he measures one differently than the other.

Into the kill file with golfer711.
He is not worth the effort.

--
Onward thru the fog,
Mason
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2005 7:01 am    Post subject: Re: World Records in Craps Reply with quote

Dice innfluncing can be done and has been around for years.The blanket
slide was something almost anyone could master.Operateing 2 sets of dice
out of one hand, In order to put a bogus set of dice into the game was
learned by a few. Takeing the house dice and being able to call the
results by useing Inglish,spin, squat. What ever you want to call it was
learned by few. How ever IT CAN be documented.But these shots are
illegal and easy to spot by the house because the don't roll. They squat
where they land. This works out to big winnings in street and back room
games. If it don't get you killed. The only reason I HAVE A FLICKER Of
hope for DI in a bank or casino craps game is. Can you imagine the first
old boy to take a pair of dice and set down and play with them untill he
could put the inglish on them to make them do what he wanted to do. For
that matter think of the first fellow to master the pool ball, base
ball, Bowling ball.I know all thes are round and lend themselves to
inglish. But 2 die can be make to act with the same results. Just not in
a bank casino rules game. Has somebody sat down and took the time to
figure a new shot? I hope so. Wouldn't really want to hear about it
though, because that would mean his cover was blown.And all that effort
went to waste. Rex
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ACDOC
Guest





PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2005 12:00 pm    Post subject: Re: World Records in Craps Reply with quote

"Into the kill file with golfer711.
He is not worth the effort"

Mason doesn't like it when you point out how foolish he truly is.

Of course, it also means that he is going to have to "kill file" most
other posters as well.

The only thing I've learned from the likes of Mason is that he doesn't
know Craps. He should stick to cards and stop trolling.
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alan
Guest





PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2005 4:02 pm    Post subject: Re: World Records in Craps Reply with quote

Mason, I think Ive got all the answers I need now: you are a klutz and
can't hold the dice in your fingers in the proper set and can't throw
the dice with the proper form to obtain control. Therefore, being a
klutz, you say that all the other kids on the block can't throw dice
either.

When you were a kid, as a klutz you couldnt play baseball either, and
so you didnt think anyone else in the neighborhood was a good ball
player.

As a klutz you became critical of all non-klutzes, and you learned how
to insult them.

You are an expert insulter. Good for you.
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Mason
Guest





PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2005 6:03 pm    Post subject: Re: World Records in Craps Reply with quote

"alan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
Quote:
Mason, I think Ive got all the answers I need now

Not all. Ask UNLV.
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