MollysPoker.com

[Guest]

Here's the deal.

The closest casino to where I live is in Siloam Springs, Oklahoma -
Cherokee Casino. Their blackjack tables are as follows (I think - only
have been once): dealer hits soft 17, double any first two, double
allowed after split, 50 cent ante per $50 bet, and they use automatic
6-deck card shufflers, which they keep keep going all the time and deal
from. In other words, there is no way to count cards, because as soon
as they have about a deck dealt out, they shove it back into the
machine to be shuffled in with the remaining cards.

I'm thinking that playing here would obviously be a bad choice if there
were another choice in the area. This conclusion being due to the ante
and the auto-card shuffler. Since there is not another choice that is
so convenient, I wonder if I could get some advice for playing here.
Obviously playing strict basic strategy will help, but would any kind
of progression help (even in the slightest)?

For example, assume betting 2 units, would the below help or hinder?
The first table is flat betting, the second is the progression (if you
can call it that). As you can see, the profit after a loss is 1 unit
less than flat betting after a run of wins, but it also yields an
immediate profit after just one win (instead of breaking even). Other
than the one chip less after a run of wins, the only problem I see is
that when you have a blackjack or a double or split (assuming a win)
when you have just one unit on the table yields less than normal.

Hand Bet Profit Profit if winning
streak stopped here
1 2 2 -2
2 2 4 0
3 2 6 2
4 2 8 4
5 2 10 6
....

Hand Bet Profit Profit if winning
streak stopped here
1 2 2 -2
2 1 3 1
3 2 5 1
4 2 7 3
5 2 9 5
....

Any advice would be great.
Thanks
Rob

[Victoria]

If you have taken the time to learn how to count, then you know that
any kind of progression will not beat the house edge. A H-17 game, no
surrender and dealt from a CSM (continuous shuffling machine) can not
yield you an edge. See if they have a high limit room (if you can play
at that level) because in Vegas for instance, no high limit room has
these shuffle machines because big players (non counters) refuse to
play on them.
Even should they not have them, unless you can get about only one deck
cut off, it is a weak game per the rules, so you need excellent
penetration.
My great uncle counted cards before Thorpe's book (he passed when I was
a little girl), he taught my uncle, who taught me (makes me possibly
the world's first third generation counter). He used to say that two
main things made people who could count and knew indices into lifetime
loosers at blackjack. Failure to put out the big bets when they should
and your problem, game selection. Sorry, if there is no better game
but you would be better off saving the money you will loose there and
then going to places like Vegas or Mississippi where with searching
beatable games are available.
Victoria


[email protected] wrote:

[Info]

Here's a fun progression I like to play with once in a while - at the 1
dollar min bet tables you will often find at lower scale casinos.

Somebody's book says follow a 2-1-2-3-4-5-6-7 progression on wins. Thats
tough to realize any real profit because you'll spend too much time
W-L-W-L-W-W-L-L-W-L ETC. Those winning streaks of 4 or 7 in a row don't
happen often enough.

But I found out that - yes just in the short term - I can do ok forcing this
progression with a martingale.

Example:

Bet two units. If you win, net is Bet 1 unit. If win Bet 2, etc after each
win follow the series 2,1,2,3,4,5,6,7

After a loss, double your bet. Keep doubling till you win and then the next
bet is the next in the series.

Yes, if you are at the 5, 6 or 7 level and have to go out doubling 7 times
in a row it gets pricey, but that doesn't happen all the time. Many times
you'll get a split or double that you win on and a blackjack and that helps.

You can make it much "safer" by limitting the play to 2,1,2,3,4 but for me
the real winnings (and excitement) come at the 5,6 & 7. Since there does
often seem to be a flow to the cards I've noticed that if I play tug of war
with a lot of losses at the 2,1,2,3 level then I'm almost assured smooth
sailing through the 5, 6, & 7. Well "almost".

So it's not the holy grail, but it is fun and can turn a small profit easy
enough.



<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

[Rob]

Thank you for the input.

My wife and I are actually just now diving into the notion of card
counting. Had hoped Siloam would work out for us as a practice
grounds, but the ante and the CSM make that thought less appealing.

"Don't play there" - exactly the response I expected, to tell you the
truth. Say for an instance that we will play there though. It's just
too convenient compared to anything else and if we go in and lose $50
or even $100, that's no different than a nice dinner, movie, and drinks
after. It's just a night of entertainment as far as we're concerned.

So what do you think? What would serve new BJ players best in these
situations?

I had two initial thoughts:

1. Keep a running count anyway. I won't bet according to it, the wife
and I will just compare counts every once in a while and see if we're
on the same number. If not, reset to zero and start over. This would
be strictly for practice - yes, we could practice at home, but a casino
is a lot more entertaining.

2. Question: would it be of ANY benefit to count the one deck that does
get removed from the CSM? Is that enough removed from the CSM to make
a difference?

Thanks!
Rob

p.s. That's a pretty cool bit of family history! And yes, we plan on
going to Tunica, Mississippi soon. We had hoped to be a little more
prepared when we went however.

[Gregg Cattanach]

Rob wrote:

[Victoria]

Rob

You can pretend and practice and as you said, it is the cost of
entertainment. Just do not think because you saw a ton of small cards
on a deal, that you now have an advantage. If you do this will you be
practicing indices also? If for instance your mythical count is +3 and
the dealer is showing an ace, will you take insurance or play BS and
not? Will you be hitting 16 vs 10 in neg counts and staying in plus
counts?
Also, you should be flat betting the smallest amount and playing at the
most crowded tables to limit your losses. You will get the casino
atmosphere which will help you. Personally, the only time I would play
a CSM is if the dealer is flashing her hole card.
Victoria


Rob wrote:

[Anonymous]

My home Casino. Hand Suffles. Good Rules. They have early surrender.

http://www.gatewaycasinos.com/burnaby.html

Toke the dealer $20 on the shuffle and they will cut out only one deck.
But you must toke them and tell them why. They will cut out one deck
and the pit bosses do not mind.

[Rob]

Thanks Gregg and Victoria for the answers. These are actually the
answers I expected, but being so new to the game, I thought I should
ask anyway.

Also..

The way you described the CSM play, Gregg, is exactly the way they play
it. They wait until the dealt cards stack up to approximately the size
of one deck of cards and then shove them back in.

Victoria, you mentioned that playing at crowded tables will limit the
losses. Is that just because each hand will take longer to play, thus
stretching out the experience, or is there something else that I'm
missing?

Thanks again!

[Gregg Cattanach]

Rob wrote:

[medgirl]

"Gregg Cattanach" <[email protected]> wrote in message

[Gregg Cattanach]

medgirl wrote:

[Victoria]

This is true for the basic strategy player, you are always playing in a
near neutral count with a CSM. An auto shuffler though, gives the card
counter a chance to count and a little extra advantage of no down time
but hurts the shuffle tracker.
Victoria

[medgirl]

"Gregg Cattanach" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

[Gregg Cattanach]

medgirl wrote:

[medgirl]

"Gregg Cattanach" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...