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banana
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 Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 2:04 pm Post subject: next pope - latest odds (Martini back in race!!) |
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In the newspapers:
- feverish public relations about cardinal RATZINGER
(one gets the impression that neither SIS [MI6] nor Zionists want
this guy as Pope)
- curiously little about cardinal ARINZE, although he is now the single
favourite, at least at bookie Paddy Power
- very surprisingly, there has been material about Jesuit cardinal
MARTINI. He was thought in the past to be a big possibility as next
pope, but more recently, was thought to be out of the race -
he retired as Archbishop of Milan in 2002. To judge by how bets are
being staked, he appears to be back in!
Might MARTINI be sellable by the Jesuits as the 'STOP RATZINGER'
candidate?
The latest odds from Paddy Power are as follows:
***BEGIN LATEST ODDS***
Arinze, 3\1 [4]
Ratzinger, 9\2 [5.5]
Lustiger, 5\1 [6]
Tettamanzi, 7\1 [8]
Martini, 7\1 [8]
Hummes, 8\1 [9]
Errazuriz Ossa, 14\1
Rodriguez Maradiaga, 16\1
Bergoglio, 16\1
Ruini, 20\1
Da Cruz, 20\1
O'Brien, 20\1
Sodano, 20\1
Scola, 20\1
Schoenborn, 25\1
Dias, 33\1
Battista Re, 33\1
Bertone, 33\1
***END LATEST ODDS***
On 27 Feb, when there was no vacancy, Paddypower were laying odds of:
Tettamanzi of Italy, 5\2 [3.5]
Arinze, 3\1 [4]
Ortega y Alamino, 11\2 [6.5]
Antonelli, 6\1 [7]
Maradiaga, 6\1 [7]
Ratzinger, 8\1 [9]
Hummes, 8\1 [9]
Biffi, 10\1
Schoenborn, 12\1
Scola, 12\1
Sodano, 16\1
Dias, 16\1
Murphy-O'Connor, 20\1
Napier, 33\1
(other names mentioned included:
Bergoglio
Bertone
Battista Re)
and on 4 Apr they were laying odds of:
Francis Arinze (Nigeria) 11\4 [3.75]
Dionigi Tettamanzi (Italy) 11\4 [3.75]
Cardinal Oscar Rodriguez Maradiaga (Honduras) 9\2 [5.5]
Joseph Ratzinger (Germany) 7\1 [8]
Claudio Hummes (Brazil) 9\1 [10]
Count Christoph von Schoenborn (Austria) 14\1
Ennio Antonelli (Italy) 14\1
Jaime Lucas Ortega y Alamino (Cuba) 14\1
Jose Da Cruz Policarpo (Portugal) 16\1
Giovanni Battista Re (Italy) 16\1
Cardinal Dario Castrillion Hoyos (Colombia) 18\1
Crescenzio Sepe (Italy) 18\1
Giacomo Biffi (Italy) 18\1
Godfried Daneels (Belgium) 20\1
Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone (Italy) 20\1
Jean-Marie Lustiger (France) 20\1
Cardinal Angelo Scola (Venice) 20\1
Keith O Brien (Scotland) 20\1
Jorge Mario Bergoglio (Argentina) 20\1
Angelo Sodano (Italy) 25\1
Ivan Dias (India) 25\1
Juan Luis Cipriani (Peru) 25\1
Cardinal Carlo Maria Martini (Italy) 25\1
Norberto Rivera Carrera (Mexico) 25\1
Miloslav Vlk (Czech Republic) 33\1
Cormac Murphy-O'Connor (UK) 33\1
Sean Patrick O'Malley 33\1
so:
LITTLE MOVEMENT:
- Arinze came in from 4 to 3.75 and has now gone back out to 4,
but he is now the single favourite
- Hummes out from 9 to 10 and back in to 9
MOVERS: IN:
- Ratzinger in from 9 to 8 and now in to 5.5
- Lustiger in from 21 to 6
- Martini in from 26 to 8
MOVERS: OUT:
- Tettamanzi out from 3.5 to 3.75 to 8
- Ortega y Alamino out from 6.5 to 15 to 41
- Antonelli out from 7 to 15 to 51
- Maradiaga in from 7 to 5.5 but now out to 17
On 4 Apr I wrote:
| Quote: | Yikes! I'll be watching Ratzinger's price.
|
and:
| Quote: | I still think either TETTAMANZI (more likely) or RATZINGER.
|
I'll now be watching LUSTIGER and MARTINI'S prices too!
BTW cardinal BERGOGLIO is also a Jesuit.
The 'Times of Malta' (at which one supposes there are people who are
well-informed in these matters), gives the following list of contenders:
ARINZE, BERGOGLIO, HOYOS, BATTISTA RE, RATZINGER, SCOLA, SODANO,
TETTAMANZI. Their descriptions have been carefully written so as to
praise some and condemn others - for instance they mention HOYOS'S
involvement with drug money. On my interpretation, they appear to be
pushing ARINZE and SCOLA as their own favoured two candidates,
especially ARINZE.
<http://www.timesofmalta.com/core/article.php?id=184259>
It will be interesting to read what they say about MARTINI over the next
few days.
Newspapers in Rome are talking of RATZINGER ('La Republicca' puts him as
favourite, but this may be intended to harm him rather than help him)
and MARTINI... If either of these two wins, a big split in the church
may not be far off.
--
banana "The thing I hate about you, Rowntree, is the way you
give Coca-Cola to your scum, and your best teddy-bear to
Oxfam, and expect us to lick your frigid fingers for the
rest of your frigid life." (Mick Travis, 'If...', 1968) |
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banana
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| Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 8:02 pm Post subject: Re: next pope - latest odds (Martini back in race!!) |
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In article <[email protected]>, banana <banana@REMOVE_T
HIS.borve.demon.co.uk> writes
| Quote: | In the newspapers:
- feverish public relations about cardinal RATZINGER
(one gets the impression that neither SIS [MI6] nor Zionists want
this guy as Pope)
|
The following story is being spread around (see below). I don't know
why. It may or may not be true. I tend to agree with those who say that
Ratzinger's name is being shouted from the rooftops in order to REDUCE
his chance of being elected. I heard BBC radio today mention Ratzinger
and no other candidate! You know what they say about 'entering the
conclave as pope, leaving as cardinal'.
Arinze's name is hardly being mentioned at all! This makes me suspect
he's in with a chance. (Rumour was that he would have won if there'd
been an election 10-15 years ago).
The big news is Martini's return as a possibility.
There have already started to be some write-ups talking about a big
battle between Ratzinger and Martini.
From:
<http://www.telegraphindia.com/1050406/asp/foreign/story_4580081.asp>:
***BEGIN ARTICLE***
Vatican rumours of plot to hide Friday death
Cuban President Fidel Castro signs a condolence book in Havana. (AFP)
London, April 5: The politics of electing of the next Pope moved into
bizarre territory yesterday with rumours sweeping Rome of a conservative
plot to secure the papacy.
In a conspiracy theory worthy of a Dan Brown novel, liberals suggested
that Pope John Paul II had died a day earlier than was officially
declared but the news was withheld to give the conservatives an
advantage.
According to the rumours, said to have come from sources in the Italian
government and believed by senior cardinals, the Pope actually died on
Friday.
The theory goes that conservatives close to the Pope decided that if
they had an extra day they could mobilise many more sympathetic Roman
Catholics from around the world to converge on Rome for the Pope’s
funeral.
The event would then become one of the biggest mass rallies in Catholic
history and increase the momentum in favour of the Pope being elevated
to sainthood in record time. In this heady atmosphere, the speculation
goes, the conservative plotters could then ensure the election of
another doctrinally conservative figure in the mould of John Paul II.
The rumour may sound far fetched but the fact that it is circulating
among — and is believed by — informed liberal Vatican-watchers was an
indication of the febrile mood possessing Rome after the death of the
most influential Pope of modern times.
“They managed all this in the Pope’s last hours to mobilise the Polish
people and the conservative and charismatic movements, like Opus Dei,
Communion and Liberation and the Neo Catechuminates, for the purpose of
creating a huge turnout for the funeral,” said one distinguished
academic.
“This will provide momentum for calls for the canonisation of the Pope
and create the atmosphere that will help the conservatives secure the
succession.”
Swelling tide
A swelling tide of faithful flowed past Pope John Paul’s body today in
an outpouring of affection to repay the Polish Pontiff who reached out
to millions during his 26-year papacy.
As hundreds of thousands of ordinary people queued for hours to pay
homage to the third-longest reigning Pope, the Roman Catholic cardinals
temporarily running the church met to discuss plans for Friday’s
funeral.
The crowds stretched as far as the eye could see, streaming up the broad
boulevard that leads to St Peter’s Square and into the vast basilica,
where John Paul’s crimson-robed body lay in state, as visible and
popular in death as he had been in life.
The cardinals decided that the vaulted basilica should stay open until
Thursday night, when the Pope’s body would be removed from the bier and
laid in a plain cypress wood coffin in readiness for Friday’s funeral.
The rites will last three hours and will draw together kings, presidents
and prime ministers, briefly united in mourning for the world's best
known religious leader.
Up to 2 million faithful are expected for the service in an
unprecedented salute for a man who helped bring down the Iron Curtain,
stamped a uncompromising orthodoxy on his own faith and travelled the
world to spread his message.
Amidst the roar of praise for John Paul, some dissenting voices stood
out, accusing the Pope of destroying democracy in the Church and
alienating many with his rigid moral values.
”The Polish Pope's internal policies were devastating,” Roman
Catholicism's leading rebel theologian Hans Kueng said.
THE DAILY TELEGRAPH AND REUTERS
***END ARTICLE***
| Quote: | - curiously little about cardinal ARINZE, although he is now the single
favourite, at least at bookie Paddy Power
- very surprisingly, there has been material about Jesuit cardinal
MARTINI. He was thought in the past to be a big possibility as next
pope, but more recently, was thought to be out of the race -
he retired as Archbishop of Milan in 2002. To judge by how bets are
being staked, he appears to be back in!
Might MARTINI be sellable by the Jesuits as the 'STOP RATZINGER'
candidate?
The latest odds from Paddy Power are as follows:
***BEGIN LATEST ODDS***
Arinze, 3\1 [4]
Ratzinger, 9\2 [5.5]
Lustiger, 5\1 [6]
Tettamanzi, 7\1 [8]
Martini, 7\1 [8]
Hummes, 8\1 [9]
|
<snip>
| Quote: | LITTLE MOVEMENT:
- Arinze came in from 4 to 3.75 and has now gone back out to 4,
but he is now the single favourite
- Hummes out from 9 to 10 and back in to 9
MOVERS: IN:
- Ratzinger in from 9 to 8 and now in to 5.5
- Lustiger in from 21 to 6
- Martini in from 26 to 8
|
--
banana "The thing I hate about you, Rowntree, is the way you
give Coca-Cola to your scum, and your best teddy-bear to
Oxfam, and expect us to lick your frigid fingers for the
rest of your frigid life." (Mick Travis, 'If...', 1968) |
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banana
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 12:01 am Post subject: Re: next pope - latest odds (Martini back in race!!) |
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In article <[email protected]>, banana <banana@REMOVE_T
HIS.borve.demon.co.uk> writes
| Quote: | In article <[email protected]>, banana <banana@REMOVE_T
HIS.borve.demon.co.uk> writes
|
<snip>
| Quote: | The latest odds from Paddy Power are as follows:
***BEGIN LATEST ODDS***
Arinze, 3\1 [4]
Ratzinger, 9\2 [5.5]
Lustiger, 5\1 [6]
Tettamanzi, 7\1 [8]
Martini, 7\1 [8]
Hummes, 8\1 [9]
|
<snip>
| Quote: | MOVERS: IN:
- Ratzinger in from 9 to 8 and now in to 5.5
- Lustiger in from 21 to 6
- Martini in from 26 to 8
|
They are now:
Arinze, 3\1 [4]
Ratzinger, 11\2 [6.5]
Lustiger, 11\2 [6.5]
Tettamanzi, 7\1 [8]
Hummes, 8\1 [9]
Martini, 9\1 [10]
Madriaga, 12\1
others at 20\1 or longer
Ratzinger out from 5.5 to 6.5
Lustiger out from 6 to 6.5
Martini out from 8 to 10
At Pinnacle:
Ratzinger 3.87
Lustiger 3.95
Arinze 6.6
Tettamanzi 8.8
Hummes 9.1
Martini 10.2
A lot of money must be going on Cardinal Lustiger.
The following is from the Israeli 'Haaretz' site:
<http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/566091.html>:
***BEGIN ARTICLE***
In Ireland, they're laying odds on a pope of Jewish descent
By Eliahu Salpeter
Cardinals of the Roman Catholic Church are convening at the Vatican
today to choose the successor to John Paul II, who has been called "the
best pope ever for the Jews."
After nearly 2,000 years of relations between popes and Judaism, which
many times have seen the flow of Jewish blood, there can be no doubt
that it is extremely important to the Jews who heads the Church.
The attitude of the new pope toward the Jews will be expressed in three
areas: the theological - contacts between the Church and the Jewish
faith; the diplomatic - relations of the Church with Israel; and the
ideological-political - relations between Christianity and Islam and the
Muslim world.
Since more than 100 of the 115 cardinals with the right to vote were
appointed by John Paul II, many observers believe that the opinions of
his successor on theological issues, including his attitude toward
Judaism, will approximate those of the late pope.
The list of pro-Jewish acts taken by the late pope was widely publicized
even before his death: He expressed remorse for the role of Christians
in the Holocaust, visited Yad Vashem in Jerusalem, prayed by the Western
Wall, established diplomatic relations with Israel, described the Jews
as "our elder brothers" - in other words, a legitimate religion
alongside Christianity, and not an "other" that must be triumphed over -
and visited the Great Synagogue in Rome, the first visit of its type in
Vatican history.
No less significant were his numerous meetings with rabbis and Jewish
leaders, and his encouragement for the establishment of departments of
Jewish studies (as a culture, not as departments for the study of the
Hebrew language or the Bible) at numerous Catholic universities.
One of his first acts as pope was to visit and pray at the Auschwitz
concentration camp. He published the "We Remember" letter in which he
asked forgiveness for the suffering caused by Catholics to Jews
throughout history and during the Holocaust in particular. The great
ideological upheaval toward the Jews was generated by the Vatican II
Conference in the 1960s, and the "Nostra Aetate" document that was
issued at the end of the conference. This document recognized Judaism as
a legitimate religion alongside Christianity, as opposed to a religion
supplanted by Christianity. But it was John Paul II who acted to
implement fully its conclusions.
Qualified remorse
There were - and still remain - controversial points in the relations
between John Paul and the Jews. In his expressions of remorse, for
instance, he took care to relate to the actions and the guilt of
Christian believers, and not of the Church itself. He also defended Pius
XII, who was accused of maintaining silence in the face of the
Holocaust, and even acted to promote the beatification of Pius XII. John
Paul also announced the beatification of Pius IX, considered one of the
most anti-Semitic popes in modern times. He conferred knighthood on Kurt
Waldheim and blessed Yasser Arafat and Tariq Aziz, the (Christian)
foreign minister of Saddam Hussein. Nevertheless, these deeds hold
negligible weight when compared to his pro-Jewish steps.
Relations between the Catholic Church and Islam could become one of the
toughest challenges awaiting the next pope, along with formulation of
the church perspective on poverty, the use of condoms in the war on
AIDS, biotechnology issues (cloning, artificial insemination), birth
control and the growing shortage of priests, especially in the Third
World.
The attitude toward Islam, which did not receive any change in status
from Vatican II (as Judaism did) is particularly important in Africa,
where Christianity is spreading faster than anywhere else but where it
is in direct competition (and conflict) with Islam. Opinions diverge
within the higher echelons of the Church hierarchy between those who
favor the dialogue espoused by John Paul and those who see the need for
a more rigid approach, in Africa, Asia and Europe. The former group
favors contacts with "moderate Islam" and the latter says that there is
no choice but for a head-on collision with Islam, due to increased
extremism within the religion. Almost certainly, a choice between the
two approaches, or even an emphasis on one of them, will also affect
relations with Israel and Judaism.
The cardinals may select a surprise candidate, but several names
reappear in many of the predictions. The Jewish press in the United
States, for instance, has repeatedly referred to the following
cardinals:
Francis Arinze, 72, from Nigeria. Served as the Church's liaison with
the Muslim world. Has not had contacts with Judaism or Jewish
communities or acquaintances with Jewish public figures.
Godfried Danneels, 71, the archbishop of Brussels, who maintains
contacts with Belgian Jewry and was among those who brought about an end
to the affair in which a Carmelite monastery was being constructed next
to the gates of Auschwitz, which caused an uproar among Jews around the
world.
Claudio Hummes, 70, from Brazil, who has more than once come out against
blaming the Jews for the crucifixion of Jesus. "We must be very careful
in our catechism and our teaching not to teach in any way an
interpretation of the Gospel that can stimulate anti-Semitism," Hummes
said a few months ago at a conference in New York.
Oscar Andres Rodriguez Maradiaga, 62, from Honduras, who recently
apologized for having blamed "Jewish influence in the media" for
focusing public attention on the pedophilia scandal in the Church "in
order to deflect attention from the Middle East."
Wilfred Napier, 63, from South Africa, who is not known to have had any
contacts with Jews.
Joseph Ratzinger, 77, one of the heads of the Vatican leadership, a
conservative and a close aide to the late pope. He deserted from the
German army during World War II. He is well versed in Jewish issues and
admitted that "a certain insufficient resistance by Christians to this
atrocity (the Holocaust) is explained by the anti-Judaism present in the
souls of more than a few Christians."
Christoph Schoenborn, 60, from Austria, who during his visit to
Jerusalem a few weeks ago emphasized the presence of Jews in the Holy
Land since the days of the Bible. In 1996, he declared that "mortal
hatred against Israel is also aimed against the Church - against the God
of Israel, father of Jesus Christ." Schoenborn has close relations with
the leaders of the Jewish community of Vienna.
Angelo Sodano, 77, the Vatican secretary of state, who accompanied John
Paul on his visit to Israel and participated in most of the pope's
meetings with Jewish leaders. Sodano is well-versed in subjects
pertaining to relations between the Church and the State of Israel.
Eduardo Martinez Somalo, 78, from Spain, a member of the highest echelon
of the Vatican bureaucracy. Little is known about his contacts with Jews
or Israel.
Dionigi Tettamanzi, 71, an Italian, wrote drafts of the late pope's
proclamations, mainly in the field of life science. Has contacts with
Jewish leaders and public figures. A photograph of Tettamanzi appeared
on the Chabad Web site, showing him visiting a Sukkah at the Chabad
branch in Milan.
Two in first place
The Reuters news agency reports that the front-runners favored by the
bookies are Ratzinger and French Jewish-born Cardinal Jean-Marie
Lustiger. In Ireland, Lustiger's odds have improved in the last few
days, from 20:1 to 4:1, and he shares first place with Ratzinger.
Lustiger, who was hidden during the Holocaust period by Christians,
converted to Christianity but considers himself a "Catholic Jew" and was
until recently the archbishop of Paris. Since he is over 80, he may not
take part in the voting for the next pope. If elected - and in the
Vatican there are few who share the opinion of the bookmakers in Ireland
- he would be the first pope (or the second, if the rumors are true
about Pope Anacletus II in the Middle Ages) of Jewish descent since St.
Peter, otherwise known as Simon the fisherman, a disciple of Jesus, who
is considered the founder of the Church and the first pope.
In the meantime, a movement in support of declaring John Paul II a saint
has already formed, and there are numerous reports of miracles he
wrought. A miracle attributed to John Paul was the saving of a Jewish
millionaire who received the pope's blessing and had a cancerous brain
tumor vanish within hours.
There is evidently no end to miracles. One of the most admiring articles
about John Paul II's attitude toward Jews appeared last week in the
Iranian newspaper "Tehran Times." It said that the pope, by placing a
prayer in the Western Wall, "acknowledged that this uniquely Jewish
method of communicating with the Almighty is valid" and said "he
accepted that Judaism's covenant with God is still in force .... It
ended 2000 years of Christian rejection of Judaism."
***END ARTICLE***
--
banana "The thing I hate about you, Rowntree, is the way you
give Coca-Cola to your scum, and your best teddy-bear to
Oxfam, and expect us to lick your frigid fingers for the
rest of your frigid life." (Mick Travis, 'If...', 1968) |
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banana
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 12:03 pm Post subject: Re: next pope - latest odds (Martini back in race!!) |
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Latest from Paddy Power:
Arinze 4.5
Ratzinger 6.5
Lustiger 7
Tettamanzi 8
Hummes 9
Martini 11
Maradiaga 13
others 21 or longer
Last night:
| Quote: | Arinze, 3\1 [4]
Ratzinger, 11\2 [6.5]
Lustiger, 11\2 [6.5]
Tettamanzi, 7\1 [8]
Hummes, 8\1 [9]
Martini, 9\1 [10]
Madriaga, 12\1
others at 20\1 or longer
|
So:
Arinze out from 4 to 4.5
Lustiger out from 6.5 to 7
other leaders steady
At Pinnacle:
Ratzinger 3.89
Lustiger 3.98
Arinze 6.3
Tettamanzi 8.4
Hummes 9.3
Martini 10.2
Last night:
| Quote: | Ratzinger 3.87
Lustiger 3.95
Arinze 6.6
Tettamanzi 8.8
Hummes 9.1
Martini 10.2
|
William Hill:
Ratzinger 4.5
Arinze 5
Lustiger 5.5
Martini 7
Tettamanzi 7.5
Hummes 11
best: Arinze 6.3, Ratzinger 6.5, Lustiger 7, Tettamanzi 8.4, Martini 11,
which seems to work out as 1.5, i.e 1\2, i.e. 50% return, for any of
these five :-)
--
banana "The thing I hate about you, Rowntree, is the way you
give Coca-Cola to your scum, and your best teddy-bear to
Oxfam, and expect us to lick your frigid fingers for the
rest of your frigid life." (Mick Travis, 'If...', 1968) |
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banana
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 4:03 pm Post subject: Re: next pope - latest odds (Martini back in race!!) |
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In article <[email protected]>, banana <banana@REMOVE_T
HIS.borve.demon.co.uk> writes
| Quote: | Latest from Paddy Power:
Arinze 4.5
Ratzinger 6.5
Lustiger 7
Tettamanzi 8
Hummes 9
Martini 11
Maradiaga 13
others 21 or longer
|
Paddy Power now:
Arinze 4.5
Ratzinger 6.5
Hummes 8
Lustiger 8
Tettamanzi 8
Maradiaga 10
Martini 13
Hummes in from 9 to 8
Lustiger out from 7 to 8
Martini out from 11 to 13
William Hill:
Ratzinger 4.5
Arinze 5
Lustiger 5.5
Martini 7
Hummes 8
Tettamanzi 10
Tettamanzi out from 7.5 to 10
Hummes in from 11 to 8
(The reason little money is going on Tettamanzi may be that he isn't
being talked about much in the newspapers).
Pinnacle:
Arinze 5.8
Tettamanzi 9.3
Ratzinger 9.4
Hummes 10
Martini 10.1
Maradiaga 10.5
Lustiger 16.8
Ratzinger out from 3.89 to 9.4 !
Lustiger out from 3.98 to 16.8 !
Arinze in from 6.3 to 5.8
best odds:
Arinze 5.8, Ratzinger 9.4, Tettamanzi 10, Martini 13, Lustiger 16.8,
which works out as 1.94, or just shorter than evens, at 94% return, for
any of these five  (A big change since 3-4 hours ago, when this
figure was 50%).
--
banana "The thing I hate about you, Rowntree, is the way you
give Coca-Cola to your scum, and your best teddy-bear to
Oxfam, and expect us to lick your frigid fingers for the
rest of your frigid life." (Mick Travis, 'If...', 1968) |
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